Max Divergent

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Posts by Max Divergent

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  49

  When is it ok to have sex?

  by Obviously Secret in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i always get different answers when i ask this question, or i get answers that contradict with the people givin the answer.

  i ask this to various forums online and they all end up saying, when your ready and you know the conciquences.

  however, that obviously doesn't work much or isn't the truth when so many little kids are getting pregnant and aids are everywhere and everything else.. so seriously.

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  Max Divergent

  Probably just after you no longer feel a need to ask....
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  42

  Just randomly underline study WT or book?

  by Max Divergent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  did you ever get into just doing random underlines and notes and all that on your study wt or books just to look like you?d studied it without ever having even looked at it before?

  .

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  Max Divergent

  Oh, yes... we have some shared memories all right!!! I'm just so glad to be out of that world and it's pettiness and bullying and carry on. But it seemed real at the time, and we must have gotten somthing out of it I guess...

  It wasn't till near the end I started getting brazen with little tricks to cover-up, but I wonder if I'd started doing that earlier if I'd have lasted longer? I doubt it.

  Warm fuzzies, Max
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  42

  Just randomly underline study WT or book?

  by Max Divergent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  did you ever get into just doing random underlines and notes and all that on your study wt or books just to look like you?d studied it without ever having even looked at it before?

  .

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  Max Divergent

  Wow! Bit of angst there Agent!! You missed nothing not being an MS except more heartache... and, yes, it's an extra complication on the way out.

  You're right boa, it's silly, but it just came to me as a way of diverting attention from myself when I'd realised I wasn't a JW anymore, but was still serving as an 'an experienced MS'... I was getting grief for my FS hours being down (despite many fake hours being added) and didn't need my non-studied WT being noticed too... it never worried me too much before that...

  ...a very conciencious older sister full of loving concern for her brothers and sisters you had their Blondie!!

  Max
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  36

  Canucks: Cut The Ties To Britain

  by RAYZORBLADE in

  1. social
  2. current

  for we canucks, the old ties to britain still linger, with no benefit whatsoever to us.

  time to dump the monarchs/monarchy.

  for pomp and ceremony we parade the royals when they come here, and i don't think...they...are paying their way.

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  Max Divergent

  What ties remain in Canada? In Australia all formal ties were cut in 1986 with the Australia Acts which introduced the neat trick of creating the post of Queen of Australia... so, it's the Queen of Australia whom the Governer-General represents, not the Queen of England... It's the QofA on coins, not QofE...

  But I still don't get why she's called Queen Elizabeth II of Australia, when she's the only one to have ever held that post... Mmmm....

  Appeals to the Privy Council went at the same time, and there's no other formal link left. I wonder if the British will start charging royalties for the design in the top left of our flag???

  Max
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  42

  Just randomly underline study WT or book?

  by Max Divergent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  did you ever get into just doing random underlines and notes and all that on your study wt or books just to look like you?d studied it without ever having even looked at it before?

  .

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  Max Divergent

  Did you ever get into just doing random underlines and notes and all that on your study WT or books just to look like you?d studied it without ever having even looked at it before?
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  48

  did any of you read the entire bible once...?

  by Richie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just wanted to know if any of you have read the entire bible?

  - i remember that it was mentioned in the congregation many times that this would be a requirement that we were to read the bible in its totality at least once and especially as elders!.

  i myself never had the time (or energy) to read the scriptures from cover to cover.

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  Max Divergent

  Nah, no way... I really didn't like the book. I had no interest whatever in reading any more of it that I had to, and didn't even attempt... well, once in a funny mood I started, but put it down after a page or two.

  Even though I was an MS doing public talks and all that stuff, I knew in total about five scriptures from memory... Gen 1.1; Rev 24.14; I Thess 4.11 (if I got the numbers wrong, it's the 'mind your own business' one), John 1.1... and that's about all. I'm serious. I had the idea of lots more, but putting a citation together with the text in my memory just took way more motivation than I had.

  I knew the book so poorly that I used to have to watch where the speaker to see where he turned the bible for the rarley used books (like anything except the gospels, Genisis and Revelation)... I got quite good at it really...

  I knew most of the content that I needed to survive from having heard it talked about so much and having read so much WT commentary on it, but really, on the bible I was like an illiterate person faking being able to read and write... but I knew the WT publications quite well so that was Ok to survive and thrive as a JW.

  I just didn't like the book, for one thing... it seemed to be the source of most of my problems.

  Max
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  12

  y questions regarding JW's from a non JW

  by North Girl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry.. this may be long i have been reading in forums and on other web sites and have some questions that some may think are silly or that the answers are obvious.

  i have step sons being raised witness and am just curious.. thank in advance to any answers .

  1) what is meant by saying not dressed like a jw.. is there a specific code?.

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  Max Divergent

  The JW beliefs and religion are quite fragile and brittle, so the rules you ask about are generally there to seperate JW's from 'the world' physically and mentally. Independence and free choice are the enemies of the JW religion and the defences against such evils are quite strong - but it's not that compliance is forced in the sense of physically stopping people from doing what they want to do, so much as the rules are deeply embedded in the social structure and are often strictly enforced with formal sanctions.

  1) what is meant by saying not dressed like a JW.. is there a specific code?

  Out of meetings it's conservative dress, always neat and tidy... and modest... Anyone who dresses outside of the accepted style/code is treated with suspicion. Revealing or tight clothing is associated with immodesty and unchasteness; highly fashionable clothing is associated with immodesty, rebelion or 'making a showy display' of self, the list goes on, but modesty, conformity and blending in are the basic rules. Modesty, modesty, modesty... it's always modesty....

  The code for meetings is conservitive business dress - suits, ties, long skirts, that sort of thing, but always modest...

  2) are only men allowed to rise in position in the Hall?

  Yes. The only 'position' open to women is to be a 'Pioneer'. That's a full time volenteer evangeliser, it used to be 90 hours a month and mostly they support themselves with part time work. Oddly, it's quite a popular thing to do. It's quite a prestigious position and allows a certain 'holier than thou' status.

  3) Are young marriages encouraged?

  No, but they are common. That's probably because of the strictly enforced ban on premarital sex.

  4) are you allowed to associate (as friends or date) non JW's?

  Friends - not really, but it's strongly discouraged more than banned. The way JW's are trained to think also makes it hard to form and maintain relationships with people who don't think the same way. Someone who's spending a lot of time with non-JW's would be treated with suspicion.

  Dating non-JW's is a no-no and will provoke a lot of 'counsel' from the elders, but it's more the effect on the JW's adherence to the religion that's at issue than the dating. If someone was determined to marry a non-JW and did so, I don't think they'd always be removed from the JW's (unless they spent too much time alone in a house before the wedding, then they'd be presumed to have had sex and would probably to disfellowshipped), but they would be very marginalised socially and religiously... It's basicly banned and is quite rare. When it happens, it's usually women who do so.

  5) are kids discouraged from after school activities and if so why?

  Strongly discouraged and socially unacceptable. It distracts them from JW activity and molds their way of thinking in ways that are contrary to the way that JW's need to think to stay JW's and dedicate their lives to JW's. Dedication to the football team is taking away from dedication to religious life.

  6) are the woman discouraged from working? Most I have met are not employed. just a note that I've noticed that the ones I have met are great with make up and hair (just an observation)

  No, many work. They do tend toward traditional family structures and it's fairly common for women to stay at home, but it's not a religious matter whether women work or don't work. Religious issues would only arise if the nature of the work or time spent there had an adverse effect on their 'spirituality' (like reducing meeting attendance). That's the same for men but in the case of a wife there is a religious issue: either the husband is failing to provide, or they're being materialistic. Then we get into the 'headship arrangements', and that's quite complex...

  Hair and make-up? It's a very competitive business being the best looking woman at the meeting and to do so within the modesty rules! I'm told it's the main sport amongst the women to scrutinise in minute detail what the others are wearing and how they're made up and all that... perfection is the only acceptable standard.

  7) can anyone attend a convention

  Yes, they're very keen to have as many there as possible (although security is said to be more of an issue now than it used to be, so that may be changing). The public can attend all their events.
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  18

  To current JWs/those who still go to meetings,etc - how is your faith? 5 Qs

  by my-journey in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know its stupid of me to post a new topic when i haven't finished reading my first thread, but i wanted to know stuff about any current jws that may be here.

  you don't need to reply if you want to tell me off or say something o/t.

  you can use my first thread for that, since that thread is more general.

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  Max Divergent

  By how much of a %age has your faith weakened? How much of a blow was it? What was it due to?

  Faith? In what? JW'dom? 100% Jehovah? 100% Other religions... who knows, I've gotten to know some nuns and Christian Bros (Catholic) and they're very cool and reasonable people, also an Anglican priest - he's a good guy. I know some pagans now, and ditto. They actually gave me a bit of faith that some form of religion used reasonably might be sorta OK. But I have no faith in the sense a JW would use the word.

  Have you tried to bring your doubts to anyone? With what result?

  My wife, brother and father: they agreed. Sisiter and mother: they semi-shun me. Anglican priest: he corrected my misuse of scriptures, but was very pleasent. Pagan ex-Pioneer: he was very supportive. People here: they're generally plain spoken, but pretty good when approched reasonably. Publishers: Nah, I left them alone. Elders: not on your life. I smokescreened my way out of that one.

  What things do you now doubt? What things do you still believe in? (Trinity, New world, blood's sacredness etc)

  I can't think of anything that the JW's beleive that I also believe in the same way they believe it. I'm interested in utilitarian hedonisim and rationalisim.

  What keeps you going to meetings? If you preach, how do you, not feeling 100% in your belief? Is it hard?

  Don't want to go.Don't go. Wouldn't go. When I did go but wasn't beleiving anymore, I went out of my way to be kind and nice and encouraging to people, but not to actually to ask them to do JW stuff. On the doors, I'd do almost anything to not actually talk to anyone - like knock on the bricks, not the door...

  What are your plans within the org? Will you do something definitive like: ask a bunch of questions at the risk of reproof, DF etc?

  If people are happy being JW, then good luck to them and I'll be Mr Nice Guy and let them get on with what they do. If they aren't happy, then I'll let them know that it's OK to leave if they want to and that what they'll be told by the JW's about leaving and what it's like 'in the world' is untrue - it's actually an OK place out here.

  Just my view.

  Max
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  40

  Where Would You Most Like To Visit?

  by Swan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  with millions of people traveling this memorial day weekend i am curious.. where are you going this weekend?

  where would you go if time and money were not obstacles?.

  i am going camping in the forest near the oregon coast.

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  Max Divergent

  I had that choice two years ago and went to Washington DC to see the Smithsonian, Libary of Congress, Arlington National Cematary etc... I'd go back anytime, it was great.

  We'd like to go to Hong Kong and Turkey, and have always wanted to overland from Bali, Indonesia to Bangkok, Thailand. That takes us through Java, Sumartra, Singapore, Malaysia and into Thailand.

  Max
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  63

  What first gave you doubts ?

  by rick1199 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  we all know the big problems with the wts, but what was the first thing that made you realise there were problems with the organisation ?

  with me it was realitivly small stuff like an 8 year old getting baptised and a comment my best mates made about another of our friends asking if we should be hanging round with her as she might be bad assciation (she had just been reproved, but they had been mates 20 years).. .

  how ever the first time i ever thought something was really wrong was when i was about 11 and my grand farther died, and mu mum wouldn't go to the funeral, i remeber thinking that surely it was better to say good bye properly than worry about if the service was in a church.. .

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  Max Divergent

  Basicly it came down the relief from very deep unhappiness I lived with as a JW being totally lifted and replaced by an 'easy grip on life' and comfortable happiness I experienced from the very moment I had the Eureka moment that I was no longer a JW.

  All the usual things like nasty elders, badly handled matters, exposure to nasty boys meetings and that sorta stuff helped get me to that point, but it was really the stark difference between levels of happiness as a human being that made the difference... and the thought of an eternety in an extreme JW 'paradise' just seemed so awful compared to a grave.

  They really are a very unhappy people who've learned to thrive on unhappiness.

  Max